Welcome to #DafReactions Zevachim 113: Heated Rivalry 🔥
Kol Hakavod to everyone completing this massechet! Hadran Alach!
אָמַר מָר, אָמַר לוֹ רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: וַהֲלֹא כׇּל אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל בְּדוּקָה הִיא. בְּמַאי קָמִיפַּלְגִי? מָר סָבַר: יָרַד מַבּוּל לְאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל, וּמָר סָבַר: לֹא יָרַד.
§ The Gemara returns to the disagreement cited earlier: The Master says that Rabbi Yoḥanan said to Reish Lakish: But is not all of Eretz Yisrael inspected for impurity? Since Reish Lakish’s response to this question is not mentioned, the Gemara clarifies: With regard to what do they disagree? One Sage, Reish Lakish, holds that the flood in the time of Noah descended upon Eretz Yisrael, and its residents perished. It is therefore necessary to inspect the place where the red heifer is burned to ascertain whether it is a gravesite. And one Sage, Rabbi Yoḥanan, holds that the flood did not descend upon Eretz Yisrael, and there is no reason to suspect there are lost graves there.
אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק, וּשְׁנֵיהֶם מִקְרָא אֶחָד דָּרְשׁוּ: ״בֶּן אָדָם אֱמׇר לָהּ אַתְּ אֶרֶץ לֹא מְטֹהָרָה הִיא לֹא גֻשְׁמָהּ בְּיוֹם זָעַם״.
Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak says: And both of them, Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish, interpreted the same verse, stated by Ezekiel with regard to Eretz Yisrael, to derive their opinions. The verse states: “Son of man, say to her: You are a land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation” (Ezekiel 22:24).
רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן סָבַר, אַתְמוֹהֵי מַתְמַהּ קְרָא: אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל, מִי לָא מְטוֹהָרָה אַתְּ?! כְּלוּם יָרְדוּ עָלַיִךְ גְּשָׁמִים בְּיוֹם זָעַם?! וְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ סָבַר: כִּפְשָׁטֵיהּ – אָרֶץ לֹא מְטוֹהָרָה אַתְּ; מִי לֹא יָרְדוּ עָלַיִךְ גְּשָׁמִים בְּיוֹם זָעַם?!
Rabbi Yoḥanan holds that the verse is asking a rhetorical question: Eretz Yisrael, are you not cleansed from the impurity imparted by corpses? Did the rains of the flood fall upon you on the day of indignation? And Reish Lakish holds that this verse should be read in accordance with its straightforward meaning, i.e., as a statement, not a question: You are a land that is not cleansed. Didn’t rains fall upon you on the day of indignation? Therefore, the bodies of all of those who perished in the flood are somewhere in the ground.
אֵיתִיבֵיהּ רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ לְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: חֲצֵירוֹת הָיוּ בִּירוּשָׁלַיִם בְּנוּיוֹת עַל הַסֶּלַע, וְתַחְתֵּיהֶן חָלוּל מִפְּנֵי קֶבֶר הַתְּהוֹם, וּמְבִיאִין נָשִׁים מְעוּבָּרוֹת וְיוֹלְדוֹת, וּמְגַדְּלוֹת שָׁם בְּנֵיהֶם לַפָּרָה.
Reish Lakish raised an objection to Rabbi Yoḥanan from a mishna (Para 3:2): Courtyards were built in Jerusalem on stone, and beneath these courtyards there was a hollow space due to the concern that there was a lost grave in the depths. The space served as a barrier preventing the impurity from reaching the courtyards above. And they would bring pregnant women, and those women would give birth in those courtyards. And those women would raise their children there, thereby ensuring that the children never became impure. This would enable the children to assist in the rite of the red heifer.
וּמְבִיאִין שְׁוָורִים, וְעַל גַּבֵּיהֶן דְּלָתוֹת, וְתִינוֹקוֹת יוֹשְׁבִין עֲלֵיהֶן, וְכוֹסוֹת שֶׁל אֶבֶן בְּיָדָן, וּמִלְּאוּ וְיָשְׁבוּ בִּמְקוֹמָן.
And once the children reached the appropriate age, the priests would bring oxen there. And on the backs of these oxen, they would place doors, and the children would sit upon the doors, so that the doors would serve as a barrier between them and any impurity in the depths, and they would hold cups of stone, which are not susceptible to ritual impurity, in their hands, and they would ride upon the oxen to the Siloam pool. And they filled the cups with water and would sit back in their places upon the oxen and be taken to the Temple Mount. The water in the cups would be used for the rite of the red heifer. Apparently, there is concern that hidden sources of impurity exist in Eretz Yisrael.
אָמַר רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב יְהוֹשֻׁעַ: מַעֲלָה עָשׂוּ בַּפָּרָה.
Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, said that Rabbi Yoḥanan would reply: The Sages established a higher standard for purity in the case of the red heifer, but generally speaking there is no concern for hidden sources of impurity in Eretz Yisrael caused by those who perished in the flood.
אֵיתִיבֵיהּ רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן לְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ: פַּעַם אֶחָד מָצְאוּ עֲצָמוֹת בְּלִשְׁכַּת דִּיר הָעֵצִים, וּבִקְּשׁוּ לִגְזוֹר טוּמְאָה עַל יְרוּשָׁלַיִם. עָמַד רַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ עַל רַגְלָיו וְאָמַר: לֹא בּוּשָׁה וּכְלִימָּה הִיא לָנוּ, שֶׁנִּגְזוֹר טוּמְאָה עַל עִיר אֲבוֹתֵינוּ?! אַיֵּה מֵתֵי מַבּוּל? אַיֵּה מֵתֵי נְבוּכַדְנֶצַּר?
Rabbi Yoḥanan raised an objection to Reish Lakish from a baraita (see Tosefta, Eduyyot 3:3): Once, human bones were found in the Chamber of the Woodshed, and the Sages sought to decree impurity upon Jerusalem, i.e., to proclaim all who go there to be impure, as if a corpse can be found in a chamber of the Temple there is reason to be concerned that there are lost graves in other places as well. Rabbi Yehoshua stood upon his feet and said: Is it not a shame and disgrace for us to decree impurity upon the city of our fathers because of this concern? Show me: Where are the dead of the flood, and where are all of the dead killed by Nebuchadnezzar?
מִדְּקָאָמַר הָכִי, לָאו לְמֵימְרָא דְּלָא הֲווֹ? וּלְטַעְמָיךְ, הֲרוּגֵי נְבוּכַדְנֶצַּר הָכִי נָמֵי דְּלָא הֲווֹ?! אֶלָּא הֲווֹ, וּפַנִּינְהוּ; הָכָא נָמֵי – הֲווֹ וּפַנִּינְהוּ. וְאִי אִפַּנּוֹ,
Rabbi Yoḥanan infers: From the fact that Rabbi Yehoshua said this, is this not to say that there were no lost graves in Jerusalem from the flood, because the flood did not take place there? Reish Lakish responds: And according to your reasoning, so too were there not those killed by Nebuchadnezzar, in and around Jerusalem, who were mentioned by Rabbi Yehoshua? Certainly there were, as Nebuchadnezzar killed many people in Jerusalem. Rather, there were, and others removed the bodies. Here too, with regard to the dead of the flood, there were, and others removed the bodies. And it is possible to ask: If they were removed, why is it necessary to be concerned that there may be impurity in the place of the red heifer,
הָא אִיפְּנוֹ! נְהִי דְּאִיפַּנּוֹ מִירוּשָׁלַיִם, מִכּוּלַּהּ אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל לָא אִיפַּנּוֹ.
as they were already removed. One can respond: This baraita deals exclusively with Jerusalem. Granted that the bones of those who perished in the flood and at the hands of Nebuchadnezzar were removed from Jerusalem, but they were not removed from all of Eretz Yisrael. Therefore, outside Jerusalem, the red heifer may be slaughtered only in a place that has been inspected.
אִיכָּא דְּאָמְרִי, אֵיתִיבֵיהּ רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ לְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: אַיֵּה מֵתֵי מַבּוּל? אַיֵּה מֵתֵי נְבוּכַדְנֶאצַּר? מַאי, לָאו מִדְּהָנֵי הֲווֹ – הָנֵי נָמֵי הֲווֹ? מִידֵּי אִירְיָא?! הָא כִּדְאִיתֵיהּ וְהָא כִּדְאִיתֵיהּ.
There are those who say the discussion should be inverted, and Reish Lakish raised an objection to Rabbi Yoḥanan, who holds that the flood did not affect Eretz Yisrael, from that baraita, as Rabbi Yehoshua said: Where are the dead of the flood, and where are all of the dead killed by Nebuchadnezzar? Reish Lakish said: What, is it not possible to infer from this question that since those slaughtered by Nebuchadnezzar were in Eretz Yisrael, those who perished in the flood were also there? Rabbi Yoḥanan responds: Are the cases comparable? This is as it is and that is as it is, i.e., the dead of Nebuchadnezzar were indeed in Eretz Yisrael, but the dead of the flood were not, as there was no flood there.
אֵיתִיבֵיהּ: ״מִכֹּל אֲשֶׁר בֶּחָרָבָה מֵתוּ״ – בִּשְׁלָמָא לְדִידִי, דְּאָמֵינָא יָרַד מַבּוּל לְאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל – מִשּׁוּם הָכִי מֵתוּ. אֶלָּא לְדִידָךְ, אַמַּאי מֵתוּ? מִשּׁוּם הַבְלָא.
Reish Lakish raised an objection to Rabbi Yoḥanan: With regard to the flood, it is stated: “All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, whatsoever was on the dry land, died” (Genesis 7:22). Granted, according to my opinion, that I say the flood descended upon Eretz Yisrael, due to that reason all living creatures on Earth died, even those in Eretz Yisrael. But according to your opinion that the flood did not descend on Eretz Yisrael, why did they die there? Rabbi Yoḥanan responds: They died due to the heat that accompanied the floodwaters, and that spread to Eretz Yisrael as well. Those corpses were then buried in known locations.
כִּדְרַב חִסְדָּא, דְּאָמַר רַב חִסְדָּא: בְּרוֹתְחִין קִלְקְלוּ, וּבְרוֹתְחִין נִידּוֹנוּ; דִּכְתִיב הָכָא: ״וַיָּשֹׁכּוּ הַמָּיִם״, וּכְתִיב הָתָם: ״וַחֲמַת הַמֶּלֶךְ שָׁכָכָה״.
The Gemara notes that this is in accordance with the statement of Rav Ḥisda, as Rav Ḥisda says: The generation of the flood sinned with boiling heat, i.e., forbidden sexual intercourse, and they were punished with the boiling heat of the flood waters. As it is written here, with regard to the flood: “And God remembered Noah and every living creature and all the cattle that were with him in the ark; and God made a wind to pass over the earth and the waters calmed [vayashoku hamayim]” (Genesis 8:1); and it is written there, with regard to the execution of Haman: “So they hanged Haman on the gallows that he had prepared for Mordecai. Then the king’s boiling anger was assuaged [shakhakha]” (Esther 7:10). This latter verse indicates that a matter is assuaged from heat; similarly, the flood waters were hot.
אִיכָּא דְּאָמְרִי, אֵיתִיבֵיהּ רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן לְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ: ״מִכֹּל אֲשֶׁר בֶּחָרָבָה מֵתוּ״ – בִּשְׁלָמָא לְדִידִי, דְּאָמֵינָא לֹא יָרַד מַבּוּל לְאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל – מִשּׁוּם הָכִי הֲוַי חָרָבָה. אֶלָּא לְדִידָךְ, מַאי חָרָבָה? חָרָבָה שֶׁהָיְתָה מֵעִיקָּרָא.
There are those who say that this discussion should be inverted, and in fact Rabbi Yoḥanan raised an objection to Reish Lakish from that verse: It is stated that “whatsoever was on the dry land, died” (Genesis 7:22). Granted, according to my opinion, that I say that the flood did not descend upon Eretz Yisrael, due to that reason, there was an area of dry land even during the flood, and all living creatures there died from the heat. But according to your opinion that the flood did descend upon Eretz Yisrael, what is the meaning of “dry land”? There was no dry land anywhere. Reish Lakish responds: The verse is referring to land that had been dry initially, before the flood.
וְאַמַּאי קָרֵי לֵיהּ חָרָבָה? כִּדְרַב חִסְדָּא. דְּאָמַר רַב חִסְדָּא: בְּדוֹר הַמַּבּוּל לֹא נִגְזְרָה גְּזֵרָה עַל דָּגִים שֶׁבַּיָּם, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״מִכֹּל אֲשֶׁר בֶּחָרָבָה מֵתוּ״ – וְלֹא דָּגִים שֶׁבַּיָּם.
And why does the Torah call it “dry land” during the flood? There was no dry land during the flood. It is in accordance with the opinion of Rav Ḥisda, as Rav Ḥisda says: During the generation of the flood no decree was decreed upon the fish in the sea, as it is stated: “Whatsoever was on the dry land, died” (Genesis 7:22), i.e., only those creatures that had been on dry land, but not the fish in the sea.
בִּשְׁלָמָא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר לֹא יָרַד מַבּוּל לְאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל – הַיְינוּ דְּקָם רֵימָא הָתָם. אֶלָּא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר יָרַד, רֵימָא הֵיכָא קָם? אָמַר רַבִּי יַנַּאי: גּוּרִיּוֹת הִכְנִיסוּ בַּתֵּיבָה.
The Gemara asks: Granted, according to the one who says the flood did not descend upon Eretz Yisrael, i.e., Rabbi Yoḥanan, this is the explanation of the fact that the reima remained there, in Eretz Yisrael, and survived the flood. But according to the one who says the flood descended upon Eretz Yisrael, i.e., Reish Lakish, how did the reima remain? Given its large size, it clearly could not have fit into Noah’s ark. Rabbi Yannai says: They broughtreimacubs into the ark, and they survived the flood.
וְהָאָמַר רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה: לְדִידִי חֲזֵי לִי אוּרְזִילָא דְּרֵימָא (בַּת) [בַּר] יוֹמֵאּ, וְהָוֵי כְּהַר תָּבוֹר. וְהַר תָּבוֹר כַּמָּה הָוֵיא – אַרְבְּעִין פַּרְסֵי; מְשָׁכָא דְּצַוְּארֵיהּ – תְּלָתָא פַּרְסֵי, מַרְבַּעְתָּא דְּרֵישָׁא – פַּרְסָא וּפַלְגָא, רְמָא כַּבָּא וּסְכַר יַרְדְּנָא.
The Gemara asks: But doesn’t Rabba bar bar Ḥana say: I have seen a day-old offspring of the reima, and it was as large as Mount Tabor. And how large is Mount Tabor? It is forty parasangs. And the length of the cub’s neck was three parasangs, and the place where its head rests, i.e., its neck, was a parasang and a half. It cast feces, and thereby dammed up the Jordan river. Even the cub would have been too large for the ark.
אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: רֹאשׁוֹ הִכְנִיסוּ לַתֵּיבָה. וְהָאָמַר מָר: מַרְבַּעְתָּא דְּרֵישָׁא פַּרְסָא וּפַלְגָא! אֶלָּא רֹאשׁ חוֹטְמוֹ הִכְנִיסוּ לַתֵּיבָה.
Rabbi Yoḥanan says: They brought only the head of the cub into the ark, while its body remained outside. The Gemara asks: But doesn’t the Master, i.e., Rabba bar bar Ḥana, say that the size of the place where its head rests was a parasang and a half? Consequently, even its head alone would not fit into the ark. Rather, they brought the head, i.e., edge, of its nose into the ark, so that it might breathe.
וְהָא אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: לֹא יָרַד מַבּוּל לְאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל! לְדִבְרֵי רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ קָאָמַר.
The Gemara wonders why Rabbi Yoḥanan was compelled to give this answer: But doesn’t Rabbi Yoḥanan say that the flood did not descend upon Eretz Yisrael? According to his opinion, perhaps the reima survived by remaining there during the flood. The Gemara answers that Rabbi Yoḥanan said his answer in accordance with the statement of Reish Lakish.
וְהָא קָסָגְיָא תֵּיבָה! אָמַר רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ: קַרְנָיו קָשְׁרוּ בַּתֵּיבָה. וְהָאָמַר רַב חִסְדָּא: אַנְשֵׁי דּוֹר הַמַּבּוּל בְּרוֹתְחִין קִלְקְלוּ וּבְרוֹתְחִין נִידּוֹנוּ!
The Gemara challenges: But the ark was moving upon the water. How was it was possible to keep the nose of the reima in the ark? Reish Lakish says: They tied its horns to the ark, so that the reima would move with it. The Gemara asks: But doesn’t Rav Ḥisda say that the people of the generation of the flood sinned with boiling heat and were punished with boiling heat? How could the reima have survived the boiling water?
וּלְטַעְמָיךְ, תֵּיבָה הֵיכִי סָגְיָא? וְעוֹד, עוֹג מֶלֶךְ הַבָּשָׁן הֵיכָא קָאֵי? אֶלָּא נֵס נַעֲשָׂה לָהֶם, שֶׁנִּצְטַנְּנוּ בְּצִידֵּי הַתֵּיבָה.
The Gemara replies: And according to your reasoning, that it was impossible to survive the boiling water, how did the ark itself move? It was covered with pitch, which melts in boiling water. Moreover, how did Og, king of the Bashan (see Numbers 21:33–35), who according to tradition was of the generation of the flood, stand, i.e., survive the boiling water? Rather, it must be that a miracle was performed for them, namely that the water on the sides of the ark cooled, allowing the ark, the reima, and Og to survive.
וּלְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן [בֶּן לָקִישׁ] – נְהִי נָמֵי דְּיָרַד מַבּוּל לְאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל; וְהָא לָא פָּשׁ! דְּאָמַר רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ: לָמָּה נִקְרָא שְׁמָהּ ״מְצוּלָה״? שֶׁכׇּל מֵתֵי מַבּוּל נִצְטַלְּלוּ שָׁם. וְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: לָמָּה נִקְרָא שְׁמָהּ ״שִׁנְעָר״? שֶׁכׇּל מֵתֵי מַבּוּל נִנְעֲרוּ שָׁם. אִי אֶפְשָׁר דְּלָא אִידְּבַקוּ.
The Gemara challenges: But even according to the opinion of Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish, that the flood descended upon Eretz Yisrael and the corpses of those who perished in the flood might impart impurity there, though the flood did indeed descend upon Eretz Yisrael, no trace of the dead remains there. As Reish Lakish says: Why is Babylonia called Metzula (see Isaiah 44:27)? It is because all the dead of the flood, throughout the world, sank [nitztalelu] there. And Rabbi Yoḥanan says: Why is Babylonia called Shinar? It is because all the dead of the flood were deposited [ninaru] there. Evidently, even Reish Lakish says that all who died in the flood, including those from Eretz Yisrael, sank in Babylonia. The Gemara responds: It is impossible that the corpses of some of those in Eretz Yisrael who perished in the flood were not stuck in the mud and remained there.
אָמַר רַבִּי אַמֵּי: כָּל הָאוֹכֵל מֵעֲפָרָהּ שֶׁל בָּבֶל – כְּאִילּוּ אוֹכֵל בְּשַׂר אֲבוֹתָיו. תַּנְיָא נָמֵי הָכִי: כָּל הָאוֹכֵל מֵעֲפָרָהּ שֶׁל בָּבֶל – כְּאִילּוּ אוֹכֵל בְּשַׂר אֲבוֹתָיו. וְיֵשׁ אוֹמְרִים: כְּאִילּוּ אוֹכֵל שְׁקָצִים וּרְמָשִׂים.
With regard to the statement that the corpses of those who perished in the flood came to Babylonia, Rabbi Ami says: Concerning anyone who eats the dust of Babylonia, it is as if he eats the flesh of his ancestors, since there is a great deal of dust from the dead there. This is also taught in a baraita: Concerning anyone who eats the dust of Babylonia, it is as if he eats the flesh of his ancestors. And some say: It is as if he eats repugnant creatures and crawling things, which also died in the flood and were absorbed by the ground of Babylonia.
What you just saw is part of The Daf Reactions Project, where I share my daily practice of studying the Babylonian Talmud (Daf Yomi) from the viewpoint of a formerly Orthodox, now secular, Millennial feminist.
I'm Miriam Anzovin—a Jewish nerd, storyteller, and artist. My passion is putting this ancient discourse in direct communication with modern internet culture, pop culture, and current events.
These videos are my authentic reactions, with commentary that's both heartfelt and comedic, and always centers Jewish joy!
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